48 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1999, Canada

Journals of the Senate

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Issue 146

Tuesday, June 8, 1999
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

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The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Austin, Balfour, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kroft, Lavoie-Roux, Lawson, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Maloney, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Perrault, Pitfield, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan, Wilson,

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, *Atkins, Austin, Balfour, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kroft, Lavoie-Roux, Lawson, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Maloney, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Perrault, Pitfield, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan, Wilson, ,

PRAYERS

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Documents

The Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., tabled the following:

Agreement on Periodicals between Canada and the United States, dated June 3, 1999, as well as a News Release and Backgrounder dated June 4, 1999.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1186S.

Government Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C.:

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, June 9, 1999, at 1:30 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations

The Honourable Senator Milne tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association respecting its participation at the Council of Europe preparatory meeting at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, held in London, England, from March 7 to 9, 1999.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1187.

Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Kirby moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poulin:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce have power to sit at 4:00 p.m. tomorrow, Wednesday, June 9, 1999, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

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With leave, The Senate reverted to Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations. The Honourable Senator Milne tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association which participated at the Second Session of the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly, held in Strasbourg, France, from April 26 to 30, 1999.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1188.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Reports of Committees

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck, for the adoption of the Twelfth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications (Bill C-55, An Act respecting advertising services supplied by foreign periodical publishers, with amendments) presented in the Senate on May 31, 1999.

After debate, The question was put on the motion. Pursuant to the Order adopted June 7, 1999, a recorded division was deferred until 4:30 p.m. today.

MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-251, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Corrections and Conditional Release Act (cumulative sentences), to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.

The Bill was read the first time.

The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Watt, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading on Thursday next, June 10, 1999.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Fraser, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ruck, for the second reading of Bill C-69, An Act to amend the Criminal Records Act and to amend another Act in consequence.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Fraser moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gill, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kroft, for the third reading of Bill C-71, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 16, 1999;

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Bolduc, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended:

(a) on pages 10 to 12, by deleting Part 3; and

(b) by renumbering Parts 4 to 9 and clauses 20 to 50 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

Debate.

DEFERRED DIVISION

At 4:30 p.m., and pursuant to Rule 66(3), the Senate proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Kinsella to the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck, for the adoption of the Twelfth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications (Bill C-55, An Act respecting advertising services supplied by foreign periodical publishers, with amendments).

The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Kinsella, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, that the Report be not now adopted, but that it be referred back to the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications to hear witnesses on the amendments proposed, as the amendments radically alter Bill C-55.

The motion in amendment was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Angus, Balfour, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Buchanan, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Forrestall, Ghitter, Grimard, Gustafson, Johnson, Kelleher, Kelly, Keon, Kinsella, Lavoie-Roux , LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Rossiter, Simard, Spivak, Stratton, Tkachuk-37

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Austin, Bryden, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kenny, Kirby, Kroft, Lawson, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Maloney, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pearson, Perrault, Pitfield, Poulin, Poy, Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Ruck, Sparrow, Stewart, Stollery, Taylor, Watt, Whelan, Wilson-48

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Nil

The question then being put on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck, for the adoption of the Twelfth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications (Bill C-55, An Act respecting advertising services supplied by foreign periodical publishers, with amendments), it was adopted on division.

The Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Carstairs, that the Bill, as amended, be read the third time.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.

The Bill, as amended, was then read the third time and passed on division.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, with certain amendments, to which they desire their concurrence.

Bills

The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kroft, for the third reading of Bill C-71, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 16, 1999;

And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Bolduc, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended:

(a) on pages 10 to 12, by deleting Part 3; and

(b) by renumbering Parts 4 to 9 and clauses 20 to 50 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Roberge, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Butts, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, for the second reading of Bill C-32, An Act respecting pollution prevention and the protection of the environment and human health in order to contribute to sustainable development.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Butts moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pearson, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maloney, for the second reading of Bill C-79, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (victims of crime) and another Act in consequence.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lavoie-Roux, seconded by the Honourable Senator Butts, for the second reading of Bill S-29, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (Protection of Patients and Health Care Providers).

After debate, The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Watt, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Orders No. 2 and 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bolduc, for the second reading of Bill S-24, An Act to provide for judicial preauthorization of requests to be made to a foreign or international authority or organization for a search or seizure outside Canada.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.

The Bill was then read the second time on division.

The Honourable Senator Beaudoin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Orders No. 5 and 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Private Bills

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Orders No. 1 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Other

Orders No.127 (motion), 49, 81 (inquiries), 114 (motion), 78, 68, 50, 34, 39 and 64 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Forrestall calling the attention of the Senate to the federal government's lack of a national shipbuilding policy to support this industry with a view towards maintaining and advancing the degree of excellence and the technologies for which Canadians are historically renowned and in jeopardy of losing.

Debate concluded.

Orders No. 73, 61, 46, 44 (inquiries), 1 and 118 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the motion as modified of the Honourable Senator Meighen, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kirby:

That the Senate urges the Government to propose an amendment to the Income Tax Act that would increase to 30%, by increments of 2% per year over a five-year period, the foreign property component of deferred income plans (pension plans, registered retirement savings plans and registered pension plans), as was done in the period between 1990 to 1995 when the foreign property limit of deferred income plans was increased from 10% to 20%, because:

(a) Canadians should be permitted to take advantage of potentially better investment returns in other markets, thereby increasing the value of their financial assets held for retirement, reducing the amount of income supplement that Canadians may need from government sources, and increasing government tax revenues from retirement income;

(b) Canadians should have more flexibility when investing their retirement savings, while reducing the risk of those investments through diversification;

(c) greater access to the world equity market would allow Canadians to participate in both higher growth economies and industry sectors;

(d) the current 20% limit has become artificial since both individuals with significant resources and pension plans with significant resources can by-pass the current limit through the use of, for example, strategic investment decisions and derivative products; and

(e) problems of liquidity for pension fund managers, who now find they must take substantial positions in a single company to meet the 80% Canadian holdings requirement, would be reduced.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, as modified, it was adopted on division.

Orders No. 63, 47, 65 and 69 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Forrestall calling the attention of the Senate to the matter of public debate respecting the posting of CAF members to Kosovo.

Debate concluded.

Orders No. 59 and 67 (inquiries) were called and pursuant to Rule 27(3) were dropped from the Order Paper.

INQUIRIES

The Honourable Senator Pearson called the attention of the Senate to the Government response to the Report of the Special Joint Committee on Child Custody and Access entitled: For the Sake of the Children.

After debate, The Honourable Senator DeWare for the Honourable Senator Cohen moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Oliver called the attention of the Senate to methods by which taxpayers in Canada may be better protected from abusive and illegal collection tactics utilized by Revenue Canada, its agents and employees, by reviewing the results of a similar study of the IRS.

After debate, The Honourable Senator DeWare for the Honourable Senator Bolduc moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator DeWare:

That the Senate of Canada uphold its unique, historical, constitutional and parliamentary interest and role in divorce and in granting bills of divorce, as demonstrated by the Senate's former Standing Committee on Divorce, and that the Senate continue to assert its special role and interest in the condition of the children of divorce;

That the Senate upholds that the Senate has vigorously renewed this interest by its actions upholding the entitlements of children of divorce to the financial support of both parents according to respective abilities, and by the Senate's actions to amend Bill C-41, an Act to Amend the Divorce Act and other related Acts, amended by the Senate on February 13, 1997, concurred in by the House of Commons on February 14, with Royal Assent on February 19, 1997;

That the Senate upholds that a corollary to the Senate's passage of Bill C-41 in February 1997 was the will, agreement, and intention to constitute a joint committee of the Senate with the House of Commons to examine the previously unstudied and neglected question of the condition and functioning of children, within the hitherto established regime of custody and access in divorce;

That the Senate affirms that this Special Joint Parliamentary Committee of the Senate and House of Commons was constituted by a joint resolution, moved in the Senate on October 9,1997 and adopted in the Senate on October 28, 1997, and moved in the House of Commons on November 5, 1997 and adopted in the House of Commons on November 18, 1997;

That the Senate affirms that this Special Joint Parliamentary Senate-Commons Committee on Child Custody and Access in divorce Traveled across Canada, held numerous sittings, heard testimony from over 520 witnesses and reported to the Senate on December 9, 1998 and to the House of Commons on December 10, 1998 by its Report, For the Sake of the Children;

That the Senate affirms that this Special Joint Parliamentary Senate-Commons Committee concluded that upon divorce, the children of divorce and their parents are entitled to a close and continuous relationship with one another, and, consequently, recommended that the Divorce Act be amended by Parliament to express this joint nature of parenting by inserting the legal concept "shared parenting" in the Divorce Act, and also by including in the Divorce Act's definition of the "best interests of the child", the importance of the meaningful involvement of both parents in the lives of the children of divorce;

That the Senate affirms that on May 10, 1999, six months after the Committee's Report to both Houses of Parliament, more than two years after the passage of Bill C-41 in February 1997, the Minister of Justice, Anne McLellan, gave her ministerial response to the Committee's conclusions and recommendations in her paper entitled Government of Canada's Response to the Report of the Special Joint Committee on Child Custody and Access: Strategy for Reform; having fully accepted the Committee's major recommendations, and having accepted that the divorce law regime currently in force is wanting and needing correction, she then proposed a three-year delay to May 1, 2002 for her legislative action to correct the obviously wanting divorce law regime;

That the Senate asserts that the recommendations of a committee of Parliament, the Highest Court of the Land, the Grand Inquest of the Nation, is the highest recommendation of the land, and that such advice and counsel of Parliament is the most complete, representative, constitutional, and the most efficient form of advice a government can heed; and that the Senate asserts that the responsible Minister and the Ministry owe a moral, a political, and a constitutional duty to Parliament to accept and follow the advice of Parliament;

That the Senate asserts that the Parliament of Canada, by its own study, examination, and conclusions, is now seized of the knowledge, that the divorce law regime currently in force in Canada is defective, insufficient, and even harmful, to the needs of children of divorce, their parents, and their families; and that the Senate being seized of this knowledge of the inadequate state of the divorce law regime, has a moral imperative and a bounden parliamentary duty to correct the situation forthwith, because possessing the knowledge of the children's plight and ongoing damage to them, Parliament's continued inaction and neglect is unconscionable;

That the Senate upholds the enormous public support of the people of Canada for the entitlements of the children of divorce to meaningful involvement with both their parents and families, and that the Senate further upholds all the children, their parents, and their families afflicted by the current divorce law regime; and

That the Senate of Canada, by virtue of the doctrine of the parens patriae, and the Senate's duty as stewards of the children of divorce, resolves to defend and protect the children of divorce; and that the Senate resolves to vindicate the needs and entitlements of the children of divorce to the emotional and financial support of both parents; and that "for the sake of the children" and in the "best interests of the child", the Senate resolves that the responsible Minister, Minister of Justice Anne McLellan, should cause a new divorce act to be introduced in the Senate or in the House of Commons, to implement, without delay, these recommendations of the Special Joint Committee on Child Custody and Access.

After debate, The Honourable Senator DeWare moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Milne moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs have power to sit at 3:30 p.m. on Wednesday, June 9, 1999, and 3:30 p.m. on Wednesday, June 16, 1999, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 1999-2000 to 2003-04 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 1999-2000 of the Standards Council of Canada, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4). -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1184.

Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 1999-2000 to 2003-04 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 1999-2000 of the Canadian Commercial Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4). -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1185.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poulin:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)

Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce

The name of the Honourable Senator Fraser substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Kolber (June 7).

Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology

The name of the Honourable Senator Ruck substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Poy (June 8).

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